SWTOR Juggernaut Versus Powertech Tanking Comparison
SWTOR Juggernaut Versus Powertech Tanking Comparison by Sykomyke
I did some comparisons and I think Juggernauts/Guardians need some loving in comparison to other tanks. In direct comparison to Powertechs/Vanguards that is.
I’m expecting Warrior/Knight changes (for the better) in the future. There are clearly issues with the class (even though I enjoy it) with tanking in general.
Powertech/Vanguards have much more core defensive talents that definitely have synergy where as a Juggernaut I feel like my Immortal tree has very little synergy. Aside from a +4% to shield chance, I feel like there is very little cohesiveness with the tree.
Let’s compare what I consider the optimal “Tank” build for Powetech versus Juggernaut.
Powertech: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#30…RrogzZMcbZ0c.1
ONLY Defensive Bonuses with Powertech build listed below:
Temporary Buffs/Debuffs(On enemy)
- Combust-Lowers enemy damage by 4% when affected by Flame Sweep/Flame Burst
- Oil Slick-Lowers enemy accuracy by 20% in an area for 18 seconds.
Permanent Buffs/Debuffs (On enemy)
- Rebraced Armor -Armor rating increased by 16%
- Shield Vents-Shield chance increased by 2% (Also has a chance to vent heat!)
- Ablative Upgrades-Increases Absorption Rating by 6%. (Also reduces cooldown of Self Heal!)
- Ion Screen-2% Damage Reduction
- Empowered Tech-10% Increased Shield Chance.
- Power Armor-Reduces all damage taken by 2%.
- Integrated Cardio Package-Increased endurance by 3%.
Total Permanent Defensive Bonuses:
Armor=116%
Shield Chance=X(Base Value of your shield chance)+12%
Shield Absorption=X(Base Value of your shield absorb)+6%
Damage Reduction=X(Base Value of your DR)+4%
Defense Chance=X(Base Value)
Endurance=103%
Juggernaut: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101fMGbu0rkuRZhZGb.1
Temporary Buffs/Debuffs(On enemy)
- Quake-Smash lowers affected targets accuracy by 5% for 18 Seconds.
- Blade Barricade-Defense chance increased by 6% when using retaliation.
- Sonic Barrier-Moderate damage shield that lasts 10 seconds or until broken. Can be used every 12 seconds.
- Dark Blood-Increases duration of Endure Pain by 5 seconds (Total of 15 seconds with 30% temporary health)
- Invincible-40% Damage reduction for 10 seconds every 3 minutes.
- Payback-Heals 10% hp every 1:30 (includes Unleashe talented cooldown reduction)
Permanent Buffs/Debuffs (On enemy)
- Guard Stance-Defense chance increased by 6%
- Shield Specialization-Shield chance increased by 4%
- Dark Blood-Internal/Elemental damaged reduction by 4%
Total Permanent Defensive Bonuses:
Armor=100%
Shield Chance=X(Base Value)+4%
Shield Absorption=X(Base Value)
Damage Reduction=X(Base Value)
—Damage Reduction versus Internal/Elemental=X(Base Value)+4%
Defense Chance=X(Base Value)+6%
Endurance=100%
As a comparison let’s look at a few of the differences.
*Oil Slick versus Smash: Holy crap! 20% versus 5% reduced accuracy for 18 seconds. Wow what disparity!
*Self heals: Fully talented “Unleash” versus fully talented “Kolto Overload”
10% Heal every 1:30 versus 15% heal every 2:00 minutes. Comparatively over a timeframe of 6 minutes the Juggernaut would heal for a total of 40% while the Powertech could heal for a total of 45%. The main difference here? Unleash REQUIRES you to be under the effects of some crowd control in order to use, while Kolto Overload doesn’t have any such requirement. Meaning…if you aren’t being CC’d (Slowed, stunned, knockdown, etc) you can’t use it.
*Damage Reduction. Powertechs get 4% damage reduction to EVERYTHING. Juggs get 4% damage reduction versus internal/elemental only. Another big disparity when you consider it.
What does this all mean though? It means that Powertechs rely upon increased shield chance as their main form of mitigation. They shield more often, and for more damage. They have more permanent bonuses, they have more mitigation bonuses. This means their damage will be “less spikey” making them easier to heal. Damage on them is more consistent.
A Juggernaut’s damage will be spikey, most of their bonuses are temproary or cooldown related. They have to pay closer attention to their health bars, and if they take a spike of damage use a cooldown to survive until the healer can heal them. They have less permanent bonuses, and overall their bonuses rely upon defense chance mainly. Meaning either the enemy will hit them or not. The only saving grace that Juggernauts get is Sonic Barrier, which I can tell you from experience in Hard-Mode heroics will not last for more then 1 attack.
There is a HUGE disparity between Juggernaut’s and Powertechs in their ability to tank damage effectively.
This comparison above doesn’t even begin to go into the offensive bonuses for each. Powertechs have an easier time grabbing AoE aggro, while Juggernaut’s have difficulty with it. Offensively, the only gain that Juggernauts get is they get a quite a few Crowd Control abilities, but this matters little on bosses.
Edit: I’m not trying to make the classes the same. I like asymmetrical classes with different bonuses. And I’m not saying to nerf Powertechs. They have an obvious synergy with all of their talents that works well. Their entire core of their design revolves around shielding for the most part. But I would like to see Juggernaut talents brought in line with this as well.
6% increased defense is HUGE… as Defense increases complete avoidance of damage. Tech's get more damage soaking ability… but avoidance seems to be how it is made up.
Juggernaut will get hit a tad bit harder, but not as often.
Now of course these examples are extreme scenarios. This is NOT to say that these situations would be the once-in-a-blue-moon opportunity that would Merritt using a juggy or tankasin over a powertech, they're just examples I pretty much pulled outta my as* to give reasons to believe that powertechs are not the ONLY viable tanking class in the game. I feel that powertechs are most certainly the easier to understand right off the get go as far as threat and survivablity go BUT this is what makes the other 2 FUN is that there is some mystery behind being a successful juggy tank or being a profound assassin tank. What I'm saying is keep your head up the game is too young to lash out at tanking classes vs others and that goes for everything including dps and healing too. This is the beauty of diverse classes. There are options and any raiding guild worth it's grain in salt knows that having diversity and more options rather than a straight, narrow, cookie cutter, get-ir-done like everyone else attitude is NOT so optimal. Keep your faith in juggies they are unique. Cuz afterall, no one else can say "I'm the JUGGERNAUT b**ch!" and get away with it lol. <<<>>> NOT absorption and health. oh btw I wonder how big an effect avoidance would play on threat. that's definitely something worth looking into to fix dmg mitigation and threat issues :)
======May the force be with you!=====
-Bonanzas-
Powertech – tank
HARDSTYLE Gaming – Casual raiding guild with a huge appetite for endgame content.
Ice Breaker – server
http://hardstyle.guildlaunch.com/
Not your typical raiding guild.
check it out if anyone is interested.
Keep in mind the 5% hit reduction lasts for 18 sec so that still gives you 3 sec to recast it before it falls off. AND even better it is OFF THE GCD so that is amazing in its own right. now i wont lie to ya i have not played a juggy yet, but i do realize 1 major issue being AoE threat. But your damage mitigation relies much much heavier on DEFENSE whereas powertechs more so on absorption. THIS IS why juggies get hit hard because most people look at absorption and get all hot in their pants cuz it sounds cool right? Which it is if you're a powertech. So they decide to stack absorption instead of avoidance (DEFENSE). I guess what I'm saying is if you're gonna complain about a class and even go into specifics at least have accurate information. Eventually I'll role a juggy as well as the under-appreciated creatures of the dark, the elusive [elusive meaning next to no one plays them, not elusive in the sense that they can stealth lol, which is bad ass] Tankasin (Assassin Tank) just because they all have thier pros and cons. Some will pull ahead sooner than the others especially since the game is so new; True. In time I can assure you that all 3 will be used depending on the Boss fights where it would prove more efficient to us a specific tanking class over the other for whatever reason; also True. In example: Notice that powertechs shield a lot well what if their is a boss that has a debuff that reduces shield absortpion by a certain amount? well then juggs in this case would have the upper hand as well as well as sin tanks due to the fact they do not rely so heavily on shielding. The tankasins have a lot of deflection (block isn't a value in SWtoR it's deflect, just to clear the air) as well as a good amount of self healing which in it's own right is more dmg mitigation to make up for the vast armor difference compared to the other 2 tanks. So in this case perhaps juggies would be trumped as well as powertechs if there were a fight where there is a sunder armor effect (armor debuff). Of course this debuff would still affect the sin tanks reducing their armor even lower yet they can rely more on the self heals they obtain to get around such an issue.
ok ok ok hold up now… do you read these abilities at all before you post stuff??? dude im the guy that just posted that loooong reply for powertechs and linked my tree and stuff and im posting again cuz you obviously have no clue on some of the stuff you're saying. Your smash ability grants a 5% accuracy reduction for 18SEC and smash is on a 15 sec CD! this means theoretically you can keep that debuff up THE WHOLE TIME! plus hahaha it does pretty damn nice DMG to 5 targets bro and can stun weak and standard targets………. ok Oil slick is different. It is not an AoE that does dmg nor does it stun weaker targets nor can it have a 100% uptime if u so choose. It is on a 1 min CD which is pretty damn nice and a 20% hit reduction but it is what it is, a COOL DOWN. So I figured if you can use Smash everytime its on CD that is one of you major AoE abilities, not only will it do AMPLE dmg comparable to Flame sweep (which i specced flame sweep to hit harder for more aggroe through inreased fire dmg)but you get a free 5% chance for thier hit chances to be lowered continuously.
yeah for the powertech this is what im using so far. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301G0GrdorogzZMsbZb.1 Im not too interested in the 3% extra health rather more interested in the extra dmg (threat) i can put out by gaining 8% more dmg with rocket punch (since we can rocket punch single targets a LOT), 60% arm pen with rail shot, and the extra 8% dmg you get when your Ion Gas cylinder procs the Ion jolts. ALso im not too sure where your getting 103% hp permanent buff. i see the 3% but nowhere do u get 100% more hp. you get 5% more hp from the BH buff Hunters Boon but that doesn't count since anyone/everyone can use that with any BH in party. Also the armor being increased by 116% is inaccurate. Again, there isn't anywhere that your armor is increased by 100%. The 2 points in rebraced armor grant 16% more armor yes but the Ion Gas cylinder increases armor by 60% not 100%. Ion gas cylinder link http://www.torhead.com/ability/3SQar1G/ion-gas-cylinder now with that cylinder you also have more than just 4% for permanent dmg reduction. when you consider the Ion gas Cylinder you actually get a 5% dmg reuction in addition to the 2% from Ion screen and Power armor so a total of 9% dmg reduction from all sources. Now the shield chance is 12% from talents, but when combined with Ion gas cylinder your actually getting 27% shield chance. Of course as I typed all this in i just realized that the Juggernaut probably has a similar buff/stance akin to Ion cylinder so I'm assuming you were leaving out the Ion gas cylinder due to the fact that that information is understood and not necessary to mention when comparing the two classes. In any matter I do like the extra dmg in my build cuz no one can rip off of me like ever. More dmg = more threat :)
My guild is now activley raiding hardmodes, and the healers are always stating that Powertechs are easier to manage as MT. The current MT's are both in full Champion, but it certainly seems that Juggers will need some balance.
i might be blind or something…cant see a marauder guide?
there is cloak of pain for juggernaut that refreshes duration with each incoming hit. 20% more damage reduction. Yey!
Based on what I read on your comparisons, the Powertech is more of a shield tank while the juggy is more of a dodge/parry tank. Also you don't really mention the 10 second shield the juggy can put up every 12 seconds. I'm not disagreeing that some tweeks might b needed, but I don't think its as bad as you think.